74 Year old gay guy here. I actually remember when minorities were excluded from the American Dream. When Red Lining was part of inner city life. When African Americans had to be escorted to school in some states and “interracial dating / marriage”? Not on my watch. Women were not given the opportunities that they have today. And being Gay? That was not discussed in polite society. Today? All of this is a distant memory. Now we focus on grievances and how fucked we all are at the hands of the (cis, white ) Man. It is really quite sad when you think about it. When we have incredible freedom to achieve whatever we want, we are enslaved. Not by actual chains but by the mental chains of the woke movement.
Exactly my points! I might have actually agreed with the Woke a lot if today was 1950. But today is 2024, and all the problems you mentioned are long gone, and those that remain (poverty and crime in Black neighborhoods, etc.) aren't product of 'racism and white supremacy' anymore but rather of inefficient and harmful Democratic policies in big cities.
So instead of solving actual problems like fixing those policies, the Woke are just dwelling in the past and are fighting windmills driving us all into chaos. Not that great.
C G Jung said it best: “I am not what happened to me. I am what I choose to be.” The victimhood mentality is creating a horrible society of whiners where all of us now no longer live in a meritocracy.
The power of envy , power elites who stay on power by stroking the jealousy , envy and yes hatreds of groups and it usually comes down to inciting mobs
Welfare broke up then black family and started them on the down hill path—the music industry made sure their children continued to fall—movies and television—cemented the idea of victimhood, even fashion puts out ‘homeless’ wear as fashion to make sure our children feel as bad about themselves as possible.
Feminism did the same thing with the same tools.
When are we going to look into who’s running these things? Music, media, movies, and books? Who is in charge of these brainwashing devices?
Once we look critically at who is behind these things, we can stop the downward spiral and save our children.
I think I know who they are and what they want. Bill Gates, George Soros, Rockefeller and Rothschild billionaire clans, all led by WEF Klaus Schwab.
Their goal is to create total chaos and destruction so they could rush in their sick fascist New World Order to 'protect is from it'. They call it the Great Reset. It would be a global concentration camp for us. They play gods and we would be slaves in their 'brave new world'. They're totally insane psychos and we need to resist them with all our might.
This has already happened before. 1800s and you have orphan trains, incubator babies at temporary world, fairs, and people locked up in giant mental institutions.
Every hundred years, you see the same thing happen. From the black death to the Spanish flu, disease, famine, earthquakes, and seriously bad weather.
I could write the script for you. Or as Churchill said if you go back far into the past, you can see the future.
There’s nothing new under the sun.
It’s been one group from the second line of creation, doing the same thing over and over.
I’m not even sure that the Carrington effect wasn’t an EMP to wipe our memories.
It’s been a very long takeover because humans are hard to control.
Woke culture also makes groups compete for victimhood and even to resent actual victims when it contradicts their narrative. Hence Jews, Israelis, whites are never allowed to be seen as victims.. Asians are allowed to be POC and victims but only if it fits in with a particular convenient narrative at the time. Black people who go up against the victim narrative are actually victimized by the woke, and subject to racist attack. Woke is a sneaky weapon to empower a very small group of self-appointed elites who use the hypnotized mobs to their benefit while actually perpetuating hatred, divisions, inequalities, corruption and all the isms it professes to be against.
I respectfully disagree, you have a one-sided approach. Women didn't even have a right to vote prior to first wave of feminism - you think it was that cool? Women couldn't get a proper access to jobs and were used just as breeding mares and home servants - you think it's alright?
'Only fatherless' homes hold Black community back is not a whole story either. Extreme poverty of Black neighborhoods is a real problem. It might be speculated what causes it, but it's a fact.
To deny inconvenient facts to fit your ideology is not better what Woke people are doing.
I'm sorry but I can objectively judge some issues from the past as objectively wrong and evil. Some morals are timeless and universal, to apply moral relativism here is actually a Woke propaganda and manipulation tool.
Imprisonment and execution of gay men for their love and nature was objectively wrong and evil.
Black slavery, KKK and Jim Crow laws were objectively wrong and evil.
Again, those things aren't the issues anymore and I disagree with the Woke dwelling on the past to stir unrest at present.
But to deny objectively evil things in our history and to claim that sexism, racism and Homophobia never were a problem and we 'shouldn't judge past times by the standards of the present' is another extremity, equally dishonest and morally wrong.
I understand why this sentiment arises - because the Woke pissed off so many people with their inflated grievances that some people began to deny evils of Black slavery and homophobic persecutions at all, which is also wrong and concerning.
Ok, thanks for recommendations and sorry for misunderstanding.
Well, I do not claim that feminism was perfect but I believe feminism had done some good things at least - universal suffrage for women and better access for jobs for them.
The reality is the right to vote was confined to people who owned property or in some instances were in the military.
An example being Canadian military nurses had the right to vote before the majority of the Canadian non-military population.
Women who owned property could vote.
Men who didn't own property couldn't.
In 1918 in the British Isles the Act of Representation have males over 21 and women over 30 (the war cost over 100,000, men their lives thus the disparity) the right to vote.
The first female minister (shadow) was Countess Constance Markievicz.
Irish people voted for her.
Delphine LaLaurie (serial killer) was an American, she owned property, she could vote.
The claim by feminists is women weren't allowed own property because they couldn't get loans.
The reality is the legal system wouldn't prosecute women for failing to pay their debts.
Who in their right mind would loan money to someone who couldn't be forced to pay it back?
You're quibbling here. Men got universal suffrage BEFORE women. Just because SOME women could still have voted before doesn't change this fact.
Same with jobs. Just because SOME women were always able to get their way and even became queens like Elizabeth or Victoria doesn't change the fact that majority of women couldn't get any decent job for long.
You might object that many men couldn't get a decent job too but that's quibbling again - IN GENERAL, it was much easier for men to get proper jobs than for women before feminism.
Why do you have to deny facts just because you hate modern feminist ideology which every decent person hates too? Yet we aren't denying the historical facts, not twisting them or quibbling.
Men without property couldn't vote, that's not universal suffrage.
In Britain/Ireland they couldn't vote without owning property.
If we're going to talk about decent jobs then we have to talk about things like how much time in a day there is.
You made your own clothes,
Washing clothes used to take all day.
It was labour intensive.
First you had to go get the water because there were no running taps.
Then light a fire.
Then scrub the bejayus of the cloth.
Things like washing machines, dryers, vacuum cleaners, fridges, irons, running water, electricity, all made women's lives easier and gave them more time.
There's still cleaning of the apartment and washing of the floor tasks which takes a lot of time despite all technology advancements. It's men and women sharing these tasks which helped women, and it happened due to feminism.
Inaccurate - ALL men STILL gained universal suffrage PRIOR to women, exactly in UK. You're sharing inaccurate information to advance your agenda, are u aware? Not cool.
'1918. The 'Representation of the People' Act was passed. All males over 21 were now eligible to vote, as were women over 30 who were householders (ie local government electors) or wives of householders.'
Also, why do you speak ONLY of UK and Ireland, because it suits your agenda better? I'm speaking of the whole West.
Let us all sit home and 'care of family' then and not work, then no government tax income and no debt crisis. It would at least be fair. But don't lock only women at home because you believe they should be defined just by their genitalia and not personalia.
74 Year old gay guy here. I actually remember when minorities were excluded from the American Dream. When Red Lining was part of inner city life. When African Americans had to be escorted to school in some states and “interracial dating / marriage”? Not on my watch. Women were not given the opportunities that they have today. And being Gay? That was not discussed in polite society. Today? All of this is a distant memory. Now we focus on grievances and how fucked we all are at the hands of the (cis, white ) Man. It is really quite sad when you think about it. When we have incredible freedom to achieve whatever we want, we are enslaved. Not by actual chains but by the mental chains of the woke movement.
Exactly my points! I might have actually agreed with the Woke a lot if today was 1950. But today is 2024, and all the problems you mentioned are long gone, and those that remain (poverty and crime in Black neighborhoods, etc.) aren't product of 'racism and white supremacy' anymore but rather of inefficient and harmful Democratic policies in big cities.
So instead of solving actual problems like fixing those policies, the Woke are just dwelling in the past and are fighting windmills driving us all into chaos. Not that great.
C G Jung said it best: “I am not what happened to me. I am what I choose to be.” The victimhood mentality is creating a horrible society of whiners where all of us now no longer live in a meritocracy.
It s nothing new .
The power of envy , power elites who stay on power by stroking the jealousy , envy and yes hatreds of groups and it usually comes down to inciting mobs
Welfare broke up then black family and started them on the down hill path—the music industry made sure their children continued to fall—movies and television—cemented the idea of victimhood, even fashion puts out ‘homeless’ wear as fashion to make sure our children feel as bad about themselves as possible.
Feminism did the same thing with the same tools.
When are we going to look into who’s running these things? Music, media, movies, and books? Who is in charge of these brainwashing devices?
Once we look critically at who is behind these things, we can stop the downward spiral and save our children.
We know who are behind it. Corporate and billionaire 'elite'. Their money and power protect them.
We need to expose them for who they really are and bring them down.
Once you get to the elite, you’re almost there. Keep going.
Who are the elite and who do they owe their allegiance to.
If we don’t get to the root, the evil will just sprout up somewhere else.
When I study something, I take it apart like a 5 year-old with a new toy to see how it worked. No detail is too small—no conclusion too outrageous.
The truth has set me free💃
I think I know who they are and what they want. Bill Gates, George Soros, Rockefeller and Rothschild billionaire clans, all led by WEF Klaus Schwab.
Their goal is to create total chaos and destruction so they could rush in their sick fascist New World Order to 'protect is from it'. They call it the Great Reset. It would be a global concentration camp for us. They play gods and we would be slaves in their 'brave new world'. They're totally insane psychos and we need to resist them with all our might.
This has already happened before. 1800s and you have orphan trains, incubator babies at temporary world, fairs, and people locked up in giant mental institutions.
Every hundred years, you see the same thing happen. From the black death to the Spanish flu, disease, famine, earthquakes, and seriously bad weather.
I could write the script for you. Or as Churchill said if you go back far into the past, you can see the future.
There’s nothing new under the sun.
It’s been one group from the second line of creation, doing the same thing over and over.
I’m not even sure that the Carrington effect wasn’t an EMP to wipe our memories.
It’s been a very long takeover because humans are hard to control.
Question is, are we going to let it happen again?
We definitely shouldn't.
Woke culture also makes groups compete for victimhood and even to resent actual victims when it contradicts their narrative. Hence Jews, Israelis, whites are never allowed to be seen as victims.. Asians are allowed to be POC and victims but only if it fits in with a particular convenient narrative at the time. Black people who go up against the victim narrative are actually victimized by the woke, and subject to racist attack. Woke is a sneaky weapon to empower a very small group of self-appointed elites who use the hypnotized mobs to their benefit while actually perpetuating hatred, divisions, inequalities, corruption and all the isms it professes to be against.
Absolutely correct, sign up under every your word.
I despise all waves of feminism.
Who taught the current crop of feminists their version of feminism?
It has always been a toxic ideology.
Feminists didn't free women from anything.
Men did with inventions and making a civilisation.
Look at any primitive tribe, that's where women would be without the technical marvels men built.
What holds the black community back is mainly fatherless homes.
One thing I can state, there were lots of people who fought hard for various equalities.
Once they were won they re-doubled their efforts.
I respectfully disagree, you have a one-sided approach. Women didn't even have a right to vote prior to first wave of feminism - you think it was that cool? Women couldn't get a proper access to jobs and were used just as breeding mares and home servants - you think it's alright?
'Only fatherless' homes hold Black community back is not a whole story either. Extreme poverty of Black neighborhoods is a real problem. It might be speculated what causes it, but it's a fact.
To deny inconvenient facts to fit your ideology is not better what Woke people are doing.
You can't judge the past based on our easy modern civilisation.
I recall Iceland has a national strike by women for 24 hours.
Productivity doesn't change one iota.
Now if men had a 24 hour strike.
An entire country would shut down.
If you had a choice between two people to go down a mine to break rocks with hammers which would you pick?
A 120lb man or an 80lb woman?
What about farm workers?
Steel workers?
Foresters?
Fishing labourers?
The industries that make our society possible are all run and maintenance by men.
It's not about ideology.
It about facts.
I'm sorry but I can objectively judge some issues from the past as objectively wrong and evil. Some morals are timeless and universal, to apply moral relativism here is actually a Woke propaganda and manipulation tool.
Imprisonment and execution of gay men for their love and nature was objectively wrong and evil.
Black slavery, KKK and Jim Crow laws were objectively wrong and evil.
Again, those things aren't the issues anymore and I disagree with the Woke dwelling on the past to stir unrest at present.
But to deny objectively evil things in our history and to claim that sexism, racism and Homophobia never were a problem and we 'shouldn't judge past times by the standards of the present' is another extremity, equally dishonest and morally wrong.
I understand why this sentiment arises - because the Woke pissed off so many people with their inflated grievances that some people began to deny evils of Black slavery and homophobic persecutions at all, which is also wrong and concerning.
I was talking about feminism not anti-gay laws or racist policies.
We have a politician here who is called David Norris.
He has fought for gay rights for decades.
Lovely man I met him.
Some of the earliest American feminists were dreadful racists and involved with the KKK.
PP's Margaret Sangler (spelling) for one.
Which is why so many black neighbourhoods have their own abortion clinic.
You should Google some of her writings.
Ok, thanks for recommendations and sorry for misunderstanding.
Well, I do not claim that feminism was perfect but I believe feminism had done some good things at least - universal suffrage for women and better access for jobs for them.
I struggle to think of anything that feminists actually achieved.
Retort
Did all men have the right to vote before women?
No they didn't.
The reality is the right to vote was confined to people who owned property or in some instances were in the military.
An example being Canadian military nurses had the right to vote before the majority of the Canadian non-military population.
Women who owned property could vote.
Men who didn't own property couldn't.
In 1918 in the British Isles the Act of Representation have males over 21 and women over 30 (the war cost over 100,000, men their lives thus the disparity) the right to vote.
The first female minister (shadow) was Countess Constance Markievicz.
Irish people voted for her.
Delphine LaLaurie (serial killer) was an American, she owned property, she could vote.
The claim by feminists is women weren't allowed own property because they couldn't get loans.
The reality is the legal system wouldn't prosecute women for failing to pay their debts.
Who in their right mind would loan money to someone who couldn't be forced to pay it back?
You're quibbling here. Men got universal suffrage BEFORE women. Just because SOME women could still have voted before doesn't change this fact.
Same with jobs. Just because SOME women were always able to get their way and even became queens like Elizabeth or Victoria doesn't change the fact that majority of women couldn't get any decent job for long.
You might object that many men couldn't get a decent job too but that's quibbling again - IN GENERAL, it was much easier for men to get proper jobs than for women before feminism.
Why do you have to deny facts just because you hate modern feminist ideology which every decent person hates too? Yet we aren't denying the historical facts, not twisting them or quibbling.
Men without property couldn't vote, that's not universal suffrage.
In Britain/Ireland they couldn't vote without owning property.
If we're going to talk about decent jobs then we have to talk about things like how much time in a day there is.
You made your own clothes,
Washing clothes used to take all day.
It was labour intensive.
First you had to go get the water because there were no running taps.
Then light a fire.
Then scrub the bejayus of the cloth.
Things like washing machines, dryers, vacuum cleaners, fridges, irons, running water, electricity, all made women's lives easier and gave them more time.
This is what freed women.
There's still cleaning of the apartment and washing of the floor tasks which takes a lot of time despite all technology advancements. It's men and women sharing these tasks which helped women, and it happened due to feminism.
Inaccurate - ALL men STILL gained universal suffrage PRIOR to women, exactly in UK. You're sharing inaccurate information to advance your agenda, are u aware? Not cool.
'1918. The 'Representation of the People' Act was passed. All males over 21 were now eligible to vote, as were women over 30 who were householders (ie local government electors) or wives of householders.'
Also, why do you speak ONLY of UK and Ireland, because it suits your agenda better? I'm speaking of the whole West.
You're going into this with the view that feminism has some good points about it, I'll grant you there has to be something positive about it.
I just don't know what it is
You could say the same about any ideology.
I support equal rights/opportunities/responsibilities/consequences for all.
My debating is not about any agenda other than truth.
It's about facts vs feminist propaganda.
I talk about the British Isles because I know more about the British Isles than anywhere else.
The USA has 50 states, different states progressed at different stages.
You did notice, I did mention Canada too.
The British empire was still thing back then.
It was bigger than what the USA is now.
Here is a history of voting rights in the British Isles.
They didn't start with the feminist movement.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/a-timeline-of-voting-rights-in-the-uk/
Debt slavery is the new little black dress.
Let us all sit home and 'care of family' then and not work, then no government tax income and no debt crisis. It would at least be fair. But don't lock only women at home because you believe they should be defined just by their genitalia and not personalia.
There was a time when one wage supported the whole family.
There were few luxuries but people had better lives.
To go further there was a time when 3 generations of a family lived in the home.
Grandparents one or more of their children and their children.
A bit like The Waltons.